Establishment clause vs. SNN
Did Stevenson students notice anything different about the announcements on the morning of October 12?
On Thursday, Illinois state lawmakers voted to require public schools to provide students with a brief silence at the start of classes. The period would be for “silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities for the day”
Governor Rod Blagojevich vetoed the bill, but it was overridden.
Is this an establishment clause violation?
posted by CitizenPatriot at 9:38:00 AM
9 Comments:
Prayer is not required, but is an option. Silence is the only requirement. Does that change anything? Seems like a blatant 1A EC violation to me.
9:44 AM
I didn't hear "pray to God" so I'm happy
2:49 AM
wow, its mundane people like you that let the government tap into our phones... anyways, wat a shame this is! does this democratic government of ours have nothing better to do then keep slushing around in their own political muck? the budget is one thing, and improving the states school system is another, but messing with my rights- that's way overblown. instead of wasting their time with bills like this, make our schools safer. Even in elite schools like shs, drugs are rampant. And they think a couple minutes of hail marys or nap time is going to do anything to better my learning experience?
“Our children deserve . . . a moment of silence,” said Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago). She said it would enable students to “listen to the rustling of leaves, to listen to the chirping of a bird, to listen to the tip-tap of a kid walking. (http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/600560,cst-nws-silence12.article)
what a load of cow manure!
Rep. Will Davis (D-Homewood), the bill’s chief sponsor, denied he was promoting school prayer but instead said a moment of silence possibly could avert tragedies like the recent school shooting in Cleveland, where a troubled 14-year-old shot two students and two teachers before killing himself.
“Just think if that student had an opportunity maybe to sit and reflect,” Davis said.
To that, and this Concerned Christian Americans backed bill I say, "God" help us all..
2:26 PM
I didn't notice!
Honestly, I think that a moment of silence each morning is for the better. I'm not religious, but I am spiritual - the silence would indeed give me time to ponder the day's upcoming events. Additionally, children (and teachers) who are religious can pray each morning without "praying", so to speak. I think this is a fair compromise for those children who cannot afford private religious schools.
If kids don't like it, just think of the time as last-minute homework correction time!
Mr. Elbaum - see what I do when I can't fall asleep? :)
2:29 AM
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9:28 PM
ABSOLUTELY- this is a violation of Constitution. As I said in class, this was the topic of both my research paper and a speech for public speaking, so I have a lot of information about it. Regarding my opinion, I believe that "personal reflection" and "personal prayer" are synonymous. There is really no difference. Furthermore, if people are really that desperate for the opportunity to participate in religion at school, there is the FCA. The Equal Access Act of 1984 entitles religious clubs to function on school property, only if that club does not interfere with school curriculum. Doesn’t the one minute of reflection interfere with our curriculum and learning? Isn’t it illegal for our education to suffer for the sake of religion? I think this time of reflection needs to be removed immediately for infringement of our constitutional rights.
9:29 PM
Julie b., that one comment in no way interferes with our learning time. Our morning class is always preceded with the announcements, which end at exactly 8:10 (they are timed to do so). With this moment of silence we lose about 30 seconds to a minute of cute little announcements such as "random student of the day". Are you saying that a brief moment of silence is of lesser value than a somewhat frivolous clip or statement?
I disagree.
10:23 PM
yes, I am saying that a moment of silence is less important than the morning announcements. rarely do they do random student of the day, but rather important information about clubs, community service opportunities, and other special events. these are more important than 30 seconds of meditation. besides, the government should not be telling us when to reflect. we should be allowed the right to decide whenever we want/need to reflect personally. i believe the state government is overstepping their limits.
8:28 AM
yes yes yes it IS a violation of the constitution. anyone who argues that this is not a religious bill has clearly not read it! the word "prayer" appears MULTIPLE times in the actual wording of the law! (on an unrelated note, it doesn't even make sense to "reflect" on a day before it happens. reflection, by definition, occurs AFTER an event.) anyway, i am a spiritual person. not a religious one, but a spiritual one. i wouldn't mind having 15 minutes or so of built-in meditation time during my schoolday. but i definitely wouldn't want to force other people to do it, too. what's more i DEFINITELY don't want the government poking its nose in and telling me when and how to meditate/pray/whatever. atheists have rights, too! and as sam pointed out, there are other ways and outlets for people who want to pray. what's stopping people from praying at their lunch tables? during their free hours? as long as it's their personal choice and no one's forcing anybody, by all means! they can even start their own praying club and meet every day if they want to. (they just have to have a little asterisk on all their posters that says the club isn't school-sponsored.) in fact, at my school, this (in a slightly different form) has already been done. (sam mentioned it--the FCA.) and well and good. i think that's great. but for the government to force everyone to pray every day, like it or not, believe in god or not, be a member of a religion that even prays "silently" or not (i.e., muslims usually pray aloud, correct me if i'm wrong, sam.) that's crossing the line.
8:16 PM
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